Mujahid Talks with Imam Malik Mujahid in conversation with Change Artist Shahzad Nawaz
Interviewd: at 11 AM Central Time Friday Dec 11. only on Muslim Network TV
Guest: Shahzad Nawaz - Filmmaker, Actor, Advertiser, Graphic Designer and Change Artist
Host: Imam Abdul Malik Mujahid -- President of Sound Vision and Justice for All.
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Unoffical Transcript:
that Indian media and American media when it comes to criticizing their government it's far more compliant and self-censoring, as compared to Pakistani media. He thinks Pakistani media is more daring, more critical. Probably he's right, because a whole lot of journalists get murdered in Pakistan and well, they get murdered in India as well. But so we have someone who is who lantis television news television stations is a filmmaker, media personality branding expert from Pakistan and he's Shahzad Nawaz. salaam aleikum.
Shahzad Nawaz 02:17
Wa Alaykum wa Salaam Thank you for having me in your show.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 02:19
Welcome to Muslim network TV. Shahzad Nawaz is a Pakistani filmmaker, actor, singer and media leader advising major media groups, including junk groups of Pakistan and Pakistan television corporations. How's these things, how are things in Pakistan nowadays? And pandemic, we heard pandemic and Pakistan is not killing as many as it is killing in USA.
Shahzad Nawaz 02:48
Oh, absolutely. You heard that right. And I think the world is congratulating Pakistan and the Pakistani government the way they handled this pandemic. And I think the credit goes to the think tanks, the health experts, and the current government for having put in place a very strong regime, whereby they try to keep a balance between economic realities, and of course, health concerns, and I think it went fabulous, it's been acknowledged by WHO and the world. It was very effectively managed. Having said that, we are now we have entered the second wave of the pandemic. And people of course, have had this pandemic fatigue for having you know, whether this and having to go through go through this for so long that some of us have been actually a little less careful with the following the OSPs that have been put in place by the government. Therefore, I mean, although between the first wave and the second wave that the percentage may have increased slightly but it is all under wraps so far Alhamdulillah it's it's all good.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 04:04
Hmm. So how the poor people are dealing with this situation in which many of them probably cannot own their livelihood I mean in America it's terrible situation yesterday Washington Post was reporting that there are a higher level of theft of food items. And people say well, there is nothing I could do I need to have food and some some food chain actually are not calling police on those people. And I'm very thankful to them because for person because the you know, we have a system the federal government gives money to states and it comes to a distribution system but distribution system people are running out of food items to distribute. So what is the system in Pakistan to take care of poor people when they are in need of food items?
Shahzad Nawaz 04:57
Pakistan, as we all know, is a developing country, therefore, it has its own dynamics. Having said that, we also do realize that large number of Pakistanis live below the poverty line. However, there have been no food shortages. There is this concept in Muslims, which is Taqwa, the belief in God and being the provider, the sole provider of livelihoods, and sustenance. And I think this is what keeps us going. This is what makes us resilient. Pakistan have not had food shortages. Uh, yes, there has been a wheat crisis. And there has been a sugar crisis. But that was due to us, allowing local farmers to export the commodity. And that was just sort of a little glitch that we faced and we had to import wheat and sugar back into Pakistan at a higher rate. But But at that has been managed. Pandemic, as in any other place in the world has affected all of us. But if I were to compare my economy with my immediate neighbor, for example, India, which is a far bigger economy than I am, then I'm very pleased to I mean, I feel bad for them. But I'm very pleased to say that Pakistan's inflation rates are under control. Our ratio of joblessness is far less in the region than other countries of South Asia. And also the fact that the government itself provided a support program to people below a certain income bracket. So the government did help financially, those who deserved to be helped.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 06:54
..in...picture Shahzad saab but but if somebody in Lahore is poor, and doesn't know where to get his food, wher-, where will he go? Is there a system in with that person to approach someone?
Shahzad Nawaz 07:11
I'm sorry, I couldn't understand your question.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 07:13
Is there a system in say, in the major cities where people from all over the country say Karachi, Lahore, where people come from different parts of the country, and they don't have a relatives and social network to help them if they're in need of food, where those people will go to look for food, which while they are unable to earn?
Shahzad Nawaz 07:38
Oh, that's a that's a very valid question. Pakistan, by the way, is one of the biggest Well, in terms of philanthropy, in terms of charity, Pakistan, is one of the top countries in the world. And this is, of course, acknowledged by international data, data, which is endorsed by the United Nations. Therefore, the concept of charity is a very integral part of being a Pakistani. And in addition to that, please keep in mind that the current government has started a program called ehsaas. In English that will translate into care. And care is a number of free shelter, shelter homes, with room and board and provisions for food for those who are homeless. And this was started actually much earlier than the pandemic. So there is a support system, yes. I'm not saying everything is hunky dory. I'm not saying that everything is, you know, 100%. But it is not as bad that we should be alarmed.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 08:42
Interesting. So how many of these shelters will be in place a city like Lahore?
Shahzad Nawaz 08:50
Oh there are already a couple working in Lahore and Islamabad, Pindi, elsewhere, and I think in Multan as well. And please know that this is the government initiative. In addition to that, there is Saylani welfare Foundation, which does that on a daily basis since the last 10 years. Add to that the Bahria Foundation, that that alone feeds up to 50,000 55,000 people every day, right. And there are other numerous charity, charitable organizations who have been doing this in and out to take care of the needy and the poor as a as a social support structure, and also as a religious obligation and duty.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 09:34
What would be, you know, give me two three major challenges which you see the Pakistanis of Pakistan as a whole faces at this moment?
Shahzad Nawaz 09:43
I think, I think overall, I would, I would rate the biggest challenge being perception. The single lens with which the worldview views Pakistan. The stereotyping of Pakistan, the archetypes that we have created, and the imagery that comes into play into mind when you speak of Pakistan. So there has been well, just two days ago, EU or united, the European Union rather I'm sorry, dis- disinfo lab released a report of a disinformation campaign which is in Russian terms called the active measures. And it released a report on India, maligning Pakistan for the last 15 years through use of different think tanks, proxy online publications of more than 170. And then the national news agency actually picking news from there and attributing it to various think tanks, which would had infiltrated and Ingress the European Union Parliament and the United Nations itself. So I believe the biggest challenge to me, for me, for my country, Pakistan, is perception, how we have not been able to tell our stories ourselves, there's a huge void, which allows for others to tell our stories to their likes, therefore, there's always this misunderstanding between us and the rest of the world. So that, to me is the biggest challenge. The next one, of course, is economy. And when we say economy we'll be a long way from home, although we are on a good trajectory, we are going we are getting there there been there have been major reforms. But keep in mind that each time that there will be a change, there will be a status quo resisting it. So at current, the winds of change are at loggerheads with the status quo. However, there have been recent reforms in terms of our fiscal deficits, it's diminishing, our current balance of the country has gone up. Our State Bank of Pakistan foreign reserves, as of today, there's just this evening I was I was reading somewhere, have crossed 3, 13 point $7 billion. When the current government came in, into power, it was almost, you know, less than 500 million or something left in the current balance. So I see, economically, the engine of growth is perpetually on a little redundant and slow, because of the pandemic. But nevertheless, we are getting back on track and the world economic indicators for Pakistan, as you must have seen, have been quoted as positive. Um the third challenge, I believe, is trying to ensure education. So I mean, a good number of children are still outside school. I think that, so this government has a priority to get them back into school and get them enrolled into school because I think the real test of this government will be educational reform. So these are the three big challenges. One is external and extrinsic, or how the West and the rest of the world sees Pakistan, and the Pakistanis. Second is economic, which is integral to our, our being and our well being and our progress and our development and our prosperity. And the third, of course, is education, which is our investment into a next generation.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 13:30
You're watching Muslim network TV. This Imam Malik Mujahid. I'm talking with Shahzad Nawaz, who is a Pakistani filmmaker and media person and we'll be right back after these messages.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 14:10
Welcome back to Muslim network TV. This is Imam Malik Mujahid and I'm talking with Shahzad Nawaz, you know, Noam Chomsky gave this interview to one of the Indian weekly. And in detail talked about media. Media in Pakistan, he visited Pakistan in the same trip and media in India and media in USA. That was few years ago. And he made an interesting observation, which I was not aware of, because I don't consume Pakistani media although I visit India more often and aware of the Indian media and in the US who consume a lot of US media that he thought that the Pakistani media is more daring, more free, and more critical of their government and institutions as compared to Indian media and the American media. And he thinks that the American media and Indian media self censors itself substantially, unlike the Pakistani media. You are the media guru in Pakistan. Do you agree with Noam Chomsky's i mean, observation there?
Shahzad Nawaz 15:30
Well, I mean, no disrespect meant to him but that's just a very sweeping and generalized statement. For me to comment on it, I would like to know, what were the parameters based on which he evaluated or judged for making for having had made such a statement? I mean, there are many variables. And there are many touch points based on which one could actually debate this. Yes, Pakistan, of course, is free, in terms of its media freedom, and its right to express compared to not majority, but almost all the Middle Eastern countries, but that would be true for any country, which is not if it does not have a monarchy in place. In terms of democracy, I think I mean, that's debatable. US, for example, gets away with murder when talking about I mean, the recent US elections, and the way cnn covered the Biden Trump election campaign versus fox is a great example of the editorial dealt between the two dominant news outlets. The same as for Pakistan, I think, I think it's pretty much universal. India and Pakistan, I mean, I- there is one essential difference. There is no sensationalism in Pakistani media by and large, as compared to India. There are for example, if I were to say I am yet to see, ever since the free, the private media came into existence in Pakistan, which was 2002 Up till now, I'm yet to see a news channel of any stature, even a small one, to actually run an hour long special bulletin for having caught a pigeon or a dove, who had flown in from India, or flew from India, into our territory and and saying that it's a spy, or getting hold of a buffalo that crossed over the fence in Kashmir. And again, thinking that it is being bugged and chipped by ISI, I mean, in a world where we, you know, we depend on satellite imagery and intel, it is it is fascinating to see how mainstream Indian media, so is, you know, hammering in such absurd studies. So what I'm trying to say is a bigger media landscape that exists in India, India, which used to call itself and I believe they still do, although their actions do not do not match up, but they used to say they're the world's biggest democracy. Um, but I'm not sure how it works and plays with the BGP in power now and what they've been doing with revoking the 370 in the Kashmir in the Kashmir in the constitution and usurping the rights of the Kashmiris. But nevertheless, to answer your question, Pakistan has far maturer news media as compared to India. And that's hands down, that's hands down. And I'm not saying this because I'm from Pakistan, I mean, anyone who has any sense of understanding of journalism and current affairs, can can make this comparison and very effectively, in fact, anyone who consumes news as an audience can actually very visibly differentiate between Pakistani media and and of course, Indian media. Now, so so we we ,we, we have to understand that media all over the world continues its struggle against regimes within their own countries, demanding more rights. Uh, I would say Pakistan got lucky because the Supreme Court of Pakistan commissioned ,created the, a commission, I'm forgetting the year but it asked for a commission to be made to try and find out how to, you know, bring a betterment into the Pakistani media and give them more freedom. Yes, we are free as free as they are in India, but with more responsibility, maturity, and I guess with the sobriety that is required of newsmen.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 19:50
But when I, you know, hear you what you say, and while researching for this program, I I found a report from Gallup Pakistan, which analyzed 12 newspapers of Pakistan, all the 5 Urdu and seven English newspapers. And their analysis is something very interesting that discussing media itself was just 1% of those coverage dealt with media itself. And only same amount 1% dealt with sports and heavy emphasis and discussion was on politics, governance, international issues, and things of this nature. So who discusses media in Pakistan? I mean I was very shocked to see sports is only 1% discuss is the major sports politics in Pakistan?
Shahzad Nawaz 20:46
Um, if I am to understand your question, correct that you said that there is more Vantage given to Current Affairs and International Affairs, as opposed to sports, for example?
Abdul Malik Mujahid 20:56
Sports or media itself-
Shahzad Nawaz 20:58
or media
Abdul Malik Mujahid 20:59
I mean, articles of newspapers don't talk about media just 1%? same amount as sports. So is there a over-emphasis in Pakistani newspapers, on politics and international issues?
Shahzad Nawaz 21:16
Well, I think that's true for any any country except that our readership pattern, and our readership habits, if you look at subcontinent is very different to, for example, what what is in the West, for example, a main newspaper headline in Toronto would be about climate change, but the Pakistani subscriber would rather want to know what the opposition said to the Treasury benches. Therefore, it's a different acquired taste of consuming news letter. We do have, you know, the traditional sections per se in traditional print media, which is the national news, the international news, sports, entertainment, lifestyle, culture, business. So these are the broad categories on which Pakistani newspaper have been publishing. And so I I do not see any, any, any feedback or I have not come across any feedback anywhere in my career, which started in 1992. Whereby I've there been a reader demand on to changing any format. It's, it's, you know, newspaper reading is a habit. Therefore, while most of the bigger newspapers have either shut their publication, circulation size, or gone totally, totally digital in the world, Pakistan still has a heavy consumption of printed newspaper, and there is a reason in in doing so, Pakistani reader, there is a medium reader size to each newspaper. So for example, in Pakistan, an average is 5.2, readers per copy. So So there is this culture of cluster reading, where you get together at a tea stall in the morning, as have you for for Starbucks, but in Pakistan you would meet at these, you know, social outlets like for tea or morning breakfast, and you would share your newspaper. Therefore, it is more of a cultural nuance, as opposed to purely newspaper reading. In third world countries generally or developing countries generally, there always be more interest in politics, because it's, it directly concerns their own progress and future. Therefore, political debate in subcontinent has always been a prime factor in terms of a social chatter, and that remains so. And I think the newspapers only feed into that into the demand that already exists. And I think anybody who tries to change the pattern and behavior, would probably out be out of business very soon, they won't be able to sustain it.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 24:11
So what is the state of Pakistani television dramas at one time, but they were very popular, although I never watched but I heard in 70s and 80s. And I saw a news item in Pakistani in Indian media that in some bordering areas, they were prohibited from watching Pakistani television dramas. So what was it What is it now? What is the state of Pakistani drama?
Shahzad Nawaz 24:44
Oh woah. So we've hit a snag. Okay, so so every everything that I've been saying so far has been positive and good. I think our drama has taken a nosedive and the reason for the nosedive is to feel the Indian pressure, which is the cultural pressure. And and there are there many reasons if you look at it holistically, so Pakistani dramas had it, were watched all over the world. In fact, the only example of first content export from Pakistan has been Pakistani dramas. The only difference being It was not done legally. But illegally, people would take out the VHS or video tapes out to Dubai and they got they got rerouted into India. And it was hugely popular Pakistan did not make a cent out of it, but Pakistan did export content in the same in the late 80s, mid 80s, so on and so forth. The moment Pakistan television Corporation decided that it's going to allocate its airtime on a timeshare basis. And private producers came into production and in collaboration with the Pakistan television Corporation, and Pakistan television Corporation was the only new television station at that time state-owned, and also a public broadcaster. So it was both state-owned and a public broadcaster at the same time. But when they gave away their time bands in the name of marketing, because the new managing director had come in, who had no past or prior experience of the Pakistani media, and he thought the best way out, was to get the private enterprise in the state setup, give them time, time sharing on certain time slots, and let them produce. They were only interested these private producers were only interested in the dollar and cents of it as opposed to PTV, when producing greater plays, better plays had this sense of obligation, social obligation, and they were not producing entertainment, they were producing edutainment. Therefore, they were also conditioning the human mind and contributing towards the social development of the society without having to be to be preachy at all. Now, the time we did this, and we gave out the time slots to the private producers, they went into a straightforward rat race, because they were three contenders with whom the seven days of the week were divided. And they started emulating star television network of India, because people who were accessing that content through satellite dishes. So India was getting a lot of eyeballs because there was a screen change. There was a change in the way they were producing it, the colors, the quality, however, there was no content. So this is when we started losing the war by trying to emulate what we were not, therefore letting go of our own strong point, which was drama, and the nosedust nosedive started from that point. Yes.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 28:04
Hmm. That's very interesting. So you're saying that the marketing and some money considerations actually allowed the formula things from Indian media to be adopted by Pakistani dramas? Is that is still the case or it's somewhat changing?
Shahzad Nawaz 28:29
Oh it has changed. Okay, so so to begin with, when the private television networks were allowed into Pakistan, that was right after the Cargill war. So what Pakistan or the Government of Pakistan or the the president of Pakistan at that time General Pervez Musharraf realized that Pakistan television alone was not enough to counter the the Indian propaganda and their narrative in a more effective way, because they were already they already had private television networks there. Therefore, as a realization post-Cargill war or the conflict Pakistan allowed private media enterprise. So when we did that, and the new channels came about, they were all for profit, but please keep in mind that the channels came before the leg regulator. So the first two channels came before the regulator came. So the regulator came essentially afterwards, and then it created its bylaws. For the longest time, the regulator could not enforce its bylaws. And in the absence of which Pakistani entertainment channels started to run Indian soaps and dramas, and series and serials onto our screens without let or hinder, although, in principle, they could not do more than 6 percent of total 24 hours programming on with Indian programming, they were allowed. But there was blatant violation because the PEMRA rules PEMRA is the Pakistan electronic regular media regulatory authority, like ofcom in the UK. So what really essentially happened is that the law said that you could not, you could not broadcast more than 10% of international content in 24 hours. So that's roughly about two hours, 40 minutes. And in that two hours, 40 minutes, you cannot unit exceeds 6% Indian content, but in reality, it was different. So what did they do? Since there was a Laguna in law and there was no categoric description of how would they spread that 10% International content over 24 hours. So entire private entertainment generals, what they started to do was they started airing them during primetime, so which is from 7pm to 10pm, leaving 9pm outside the sphere, because 9pm is essentially a news news slot in Pakistan, however, so nevertheless, so. So what happened, so they and why would they do this not essentially because people wanted to watch Indian, because it was far cheaper for them to procure an existing Indian software or content and have a rerun in Pakistan. And with that rerun, it would cost them less as opposed to producing original content in Pakistan. Excuse me. Consequently, the Pakistani producer started to suffer, because primetime is the premium advertising slot and you like you will appreciate that in Pakistan our channels are free to air, they're not subscription based channels. Therefore, our channels depend on advertising revenue, so that So essentially, it is a very competitive market and the real money lies in the Primetime viewing where the eyeballs are, hence, where the advertiser is going to go. Consequently, because they started using Indian content as rerun, the producers were deprived of the economic opportunity and this continued for the longest time up until the Uri and Pulwama attack. So, this is when things you know with Pakistan in India, it's a no peace no war doctrine, so to speak. So when when the escalation at the Line of Control happened, so PEMRA under the you know, introduced new amendments into the law and ensured that the the Indian content is banned permanently and with that, came other international content, but Indian content from that day, up to now is banned in Pakistan, be it indian films, be it Indian television or indian songs on our radio networks.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 33:18
But that was after what, 20 years of rerun there or something like that?
Shahzad Nawaz 33:23
Yes. There about, about 15 to 18 years. Yes. Yes. It's embarrassing. It's a huge blow.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 33:30
So we'll take a short break, but very interesting conversation. You're watching Muslim network TV. This is Imam Malik Mujahid I'm talking Pakistani media person Shahzad Nawaz and we'll be right back after these messages.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 34:11
Welcome back to Muslim network TV. This is Imam Malik Mujahid talking with Shahzad Nawaz. In 2011 a study of Indian movies found that more than 65% of them have very negative represent representation of Muslims and only 4.4% have positive one. So if that's how the Indian study of about Indian movies are if they were the things which were Pakistanis were watching, and they were watching quite a bit I remember going there few years ago, and my neighbors, I was at my brother's house and neighbors their parathas were being prepared around midday. So I see these people are eating parathas for lunch. And they started laughing said, No, no, no, no, they just woke up and this is their breakfast. And I said, What? And he said yeah they watch these Indian movies and all that late and whole Karachi is more or less like that. I don't know whether the rest of the Pakistan was like that or not. But what is the impact of this consuming 20 years of Indian films and media on Pakistani culture?
Shahzad Nawaz 35:33
If you asked me frankly, I think there could be no bigger and better example of cultural invasion without having to fire a single shot. And this is the beauty of hybrid war. Did you know that there are more than 48 films that have been made specifically against Pakistan with a narrative that goes against Pakistan. With with themes and subplots that include maligning the Pakistani intelligence services or the Pakistani armed forces. This is the traditional cinema. As of now, when I speak with the Ott in place with the, the over the top platforms or subscription based OTTs SOTTs. They're already seven titles that title that target Pakistan, including an entire series that is concentrating on fiction, on liberation of Balochistan, with the help of RAW, their intelligence agency involved, so they've always been up to mischief. And, and, and unfortunately, there's been this big, in my, in my opinion, there's been this big misnomer, when the Pakistani artists and Pakistani people, by and large, try and differentiate between culture and national interest. However, as a student of political science, national interest also lies in cultural progress, because it is part of the national aims and objectives of a nation state now. So we've been consuming it to a level that we are immune. And it has become, it had become I'd say, like I said, for the past few years, the Indian films are banned, again, which allowed for the Pakistani producers to actually have a renaissance of films from Pakistan. And I think, hats off to the government for having had banned because and I'm not saying this because I'm, I'm a hawk. So this is not a matter of being a hawk or a dove, but simply trade must be bilateral. It must be a bilateral, and our films are not allowed into the Indian market, which is a far bigger market. And they expect us to continue to consume their product. And so I see that it was a very unfair, unfair trade agreement between Pakistani exhibitors or cinema owners, and and the Indians. So Pakistani producer, like television went down. So this was the second cultural attack, the only industry where Pakistan stood up and kept fighting back was music. Were repeatedly our Coke Studio, out shined their productions. And it was acknowledged by COKE back in Atlanta, and of course, in the region. Yes.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 38:45
Well, I hope you will forgive me, Shahzad, know, I spent, you know, I could be absolutely wrong. I'm a expert on India. My book on India is taught at the universities I visit often. But I haven't studied Pakistan as much. But being a Pakistani, and visiting here and there and meeting Pakistanis here, I find the level and please forgive me and correct me if I'm wrong. I find a level of self-hate among Pakistanis, they're really hard on themselves and don't seem to respect anything Pakistanis, Is it the result is cynicism, I could be wrong, is this the result of this consumption of Indian media which depicts Muslims in a very particular way? And, you know, foreign invaders? I mean, the narrative which is being used against Indian Muslims now, also seems to be the same type of product, which Pakistanis have been watching.
Shahzad Nawaz 39:49
I think it's stemming out of two very simple basic things. One is a bias. And because when you wear these specks of bias, you start to see things in a distortion. That chooses, that chooses to adhere or or fits your fancy or ideals of how you wish to see the other community or society. And and the other is plain and simple ignorance. It's ignorance it's nothing more because the way Muslims are shown by and large in the media, in fiction, which is filmed entertainment or television, but mainly filmed entertainment or their films and movies is a very stereotypical image, which hasn't changed from the 70s all the way up into 2020s. It stays the same. Their colloquials their mannerism ,their nuances, their language, their buzzwords, the way they are attired and stylized. They would have a skullcap each one will have an amulet in the neck would have, you know, an eyeliner going on wearing a kafiya, or the scarf, which is the Arab scarf. I mean, it's just stereotypical and it is a beyond, I think, any realistic depiction of a Muslim from the subcontinent because there is a huge ethnic composition even within India, for example, there are huge Muslim settlements that that still live today they are they are the Pashtuns by origin, and their Punjabis by origin. And they are, you know, and they are also Sindhi's from the Sindh province. Just who continues to live and be Indian nationals as Muslims, but they do not fit the stereotype depiction. So they probably take people from their own imagination from the CP and the UP provinces and paint that as an overall picture, which I think is far from reality. And it's absurd, actually it although I must give them credit, for they have evolved in the art of filmmaking. I wish they would evolve in the art of being fair, as well.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 42:10
Well, the fairness of it recently, I was interviewing somebody who worked for CIA for 30 32 years or something. And I asked him, is there anytime in our US history, and we prefer democracy, democracy and human rights over national interest, without hesitating he say never.
Shahzad Nawaz 42:32
Certainly. I would agree with them, actually, nation comes first.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 42:37
So let's talk about that. I mean, you mentioned earlier in the interview about the European Union report, which I started reading yesterday, it is a fairly lengthy detailed report. So I have been through with some so far, but it says 750 fake media outlets in 116 countries, which are a growing chamber and that Indian news agency is sort of the center of promoting that to what is stops. And they're not saying it is about Kashmir, they are saying it is against Pakistan, essentially. And that's a 15 years they have been doing that and and they have this fake NGOs, who just has died and human rights experts who have passed away and they have been blatantly presenting that they are saying things against Pakistan. So what what stops in you a well accomplished person who seems to be balanced critical of Pakistani society as well as appreciative of Pakistani society, it seems that you know, to start something of this nature, which are present if you Google, for example, news.google.com most of the when you type Pakistan, which I did this morning, also, most of the news about Pakistan, which will be negative is coming from India and Indian papers. And interesting enough, if something positive is coming somewhat, not always, mostly positive comes from when the some some Turkish News Agency reports it, or Al Jazeera which gives positive negative both is coming from them. But I do not see any source which is directly connected with Pakistan giving news about Pakistan and Pakistani media. So when Pakistani media is thriving, I heard somebody told me there are 100 plus television channels. Why Pakistan is limited by its imagination, to deal with this phenomena, which you mentioned as a first challenge it's perception of Pakistan.
Shahzad Nawaz 44:53
I would tend to agree with you i think, first of all, speaking on the EU disinfo Labs Expose, I think it's both fantastic that it has. And they've been saying this, by the way since 2017. It's fantastic. It's fantastic because it gives Pakistan the opportunity to further, you know, add this to the dossier that they recently handed out to the world community, which is involvement categoric proofs of Indian involvement in subversion, and espionage and other, you know, financing of terror activities within Pakistan. Add to that this hybrid war that they have been waging on us for 15 years. But I'm equally embarrassed. And I'm embarrassed that this study and this expose and this investigative piece should have come from Pakistan, not from European Union. Therefore, I think to a certain degree, it is an intelligence failure on our part, but why I'm hopeful is this will lead us to understand the importance of full spectrum hybrid. In in response to what we have been subjugated to. If you look at the number that they've spent in terms of campaign money, especially for the free Baluchistan campaign that they ran in Geneva, and then later in the UK, it costs in millions millions of dollars. And that there would have been no way that this front apparent Think Tank called Baluchistan house would have been in any position. And then of course, the Friends of Baltistan trying to stir nationalism and, you know, because because of CPEC. So, I think that it I think that the timing is right for us to understand that fifth generation warfare, or hybrid warfare needs to be full spectrum.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 47:01
Is this realization, the reason Pakistan has started importing the Turkish dramas? Is the import of Turkish drama, a sort of a Pakistani answer to Bollywood?
Shahzad Nawaz 47:21
Oh, okay, so, so, so Okay, so, so, Turkish drama came in Pakistan, I think, in 2010, or 11, started. Please bear in mind, not just Turkish but Spanish as well. PEMRA, the licensing authority, which issues licenses to cable and satellite channels to operate in Pakistan, has a provision for landing rights of channels, who do not necessarily have an operations setup in Pakistan, however, our desires of beaming their transmission into Pakistan. Urdu one was the name of the channel that was the first incident of such, I mean, there was the first experiment of a foreign drama being dubbed into Urdu content, Urdu language, I'm sorry, and that was through Urdu one, it was massively popular. And then the Turkish content. However, keep in mind that those channels were allowed to show a total programming mix beyond 10%, because they were channels with landing rights in Pakistan. So therefore, they were treated as international channels and not Pakistani channels. For the Pakistani channels, they still had that restriction of 10%. And with that 10% restriction, Pakistan is also started to show Turkish content in place of Indian because it still had the the caveat, to have 10% of international programming. There were multiple reasons for this. A ,they wanted to replace the Indian content because it was banned B, because it's cheaper to get a rerun play out in a country like Pakistan because rates for the content or the pricing for content aggregation varies from region to region. So Pakistan comes into a region where the prices are far lower than as opposed to you trying to get the rights to air them in the United States, or the United Kingdom, for example. So that was the second reason. And the third was the quality because of the size of the production. It would have been next to impossible for us to produce and still achieve the economies of scale for it to be marketable, to be profitable as a television channel. Excuse me.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 50:01
Alright, so as we come to conclusion here Shahad Nawaz what is your next venture?
Shahzad Nawaz 50:08
I missed that question. I'm sorry,
Abdul Malik Mujahid 50:10
What is your next, we are about to conclude we have half a minute. So what are you doing in future,
Shahzad Nawaz 50:17
I want to break the taboo of Pakistan's entry into Netflix and the reason why they have not been Pakistan has not been able to do it, because the moment we create a content in Urdu, Netflix treats it as Hindi and sends it crosses it to India. And I'm sure they harbor the same love I harbor for that. And I don't blame them for rejecting my proposals as in proposals from Pakistan. So my, my total dedication for 2021 is going to be to get Pakistan onto the map of OTT quality web series with international quality stories. And I'm currently working on that and very hopeful and soon inshallah you'd hear about it.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 51:01
Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much Shahzad saab. Shahzad Nawaz is a Pakistani filmmaker, actor, singer, and media-linker, who is advice many major Pakistani media. Thank you so much for your time. And thank you Sherdil Khan and Dr. Abdul Waheed for producing today's show. This is Imam Malik Mujahid. Thank you so much for watching Muslim network TV, we're always there and 24 seven on the same place where you're watching the devices are galaxy 19 satellite, which is watched by 50 70 million people here subscribers and our Ott devices like Apple TV, Amazon Fire Roku and you can download our app Muslim network TV on your phone. And our website is always there for you. So stay tuned for the programming peace Salaam.
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